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Xepher.net => Applications => Topic started by: blooptoon on July 30, 2006, 11:45:54 pm

Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on July 30, 2006, 11:45:54 pm
I would like to submit BLOOP for hosting on xepher.net. My website is currently subscription based but has a FREE ARCHIVE for viewing past strips. I will post some links here for those without the patience for wading through a website (although there are more samples at the website). Also I would intend to update here at least weekly and that any BLOOP comic strips posted on xepher.net would be free and without ads (unless the hosting service posts them of course). Anyway my website address is http://www.webcomicsnation.com/blooptoon and here are some simple links.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/4jbwbarharmony.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/11jczombie1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/12jczombie2.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/13jczombie3_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/14jcdead_lawyer_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/15jcscrewed_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/22jcfreegovtbeer_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/24jcevilmark_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/27cblobporno_copy1.jpg

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/memberimages/35csuperflycookie_copy1.jpg

My strip recently got mostly blasted at Transplant Comics by some webcomic artist's who's own strips and sites were not that great (Voids and Bub's World in particular). Hopefully I'll have better luck here. But if not please feel free to let me know where improvements can be made! Thanks and Enjoy!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: griever on July 31, 2006, 12:26:40 am
Did you create this website, or are all the ads something that was imposed on you by your current host?  o.O  With that being said, 15jcscrewed_copy1.jpg made me laugh.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on July 31, 2006, 02:12:02 pm
Did you create this website, or are all the ads something that was imposed on you by your current host?  

I created the website using the host's template.  I put the ads there.  I tried to keep the main focus on the comic by putting the ads to the extreme right and bottoms of the pages.  I would remove them but they generate too damn much money.  Forgive me I'm weak!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on July 31, 2006, 03:03:49 pm
Ad's aren't too welcome here... this is a haven to get away from that stuff.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on July 31, 2006, 11:06:57 pm
Ad's aren't too welcome here... this is a haven to get away from that stuff.

Yeah, ads aren't welcome most anywhere but as I stated in my initial application post, I would be willing to stay ad free except for ads posted by the host.  My current site with ads generates sufficient income, I don't need to post any ads here on Xepher.net.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 01, 2006, 03:00:08 pm
So you would keep both sites?

I denied your friend request on MySpace because I dont know you well enough, sorry.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 01, 2006, 07:53:44 pm
So you would keep both sites?

Well sure!  I'm not gonna give up my cash cow, silly goose (never underestimate the power of the pop-up)!  And don't even mention touching my copyright or merchandizing!  But as you point out a lot of people don't like to wade through websites filled with ads and what not.  And that's a lot of people not looking at my work!  (Some of my friends agrue that these are the people you don't want viewing your work anyway but I disagree)  I initially lucked out by circumventing the whole 'giving away' my comics thing which is real popular now.  I started BLOOP way back in the day in 1985 while in college.  BLOOP was published in the college paper (a nice paying gig in the form of a scholorship)  I even published a collection of those old strips which sold nicely in the student bookstore (eventhough those greedy bastards took ten percent)  So I was able to start out in the webcomics business with a decent following already in place.  However, at this point allowing people to get to see my work is almost as important as making money is.  I would therefore intend my submissions here at Xepher.net be non-subscription based (ie free) and ad free.  This way ad free haven lovers like yourself can check out BLOOP free of subscription fees, ads and pop-ups!  As Alex said in Clockwork Orange "you have to know when to be generous and giving like ..."
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 01, 2006, 09:09:25 pm
Pop-ups are the devil. I will tell you this flat out right now. ...this is just personal pet peeve though.

If you're keeping the other one you have no need for a webpage here. If you're concerned that your readers need a webpage without ads then you need to think about removing them or deciding you aren't as concerned over what your readers want as you lead on to be. (You've stated them seeing your work for free is as imporant as the additional income.) It seems like you appear to be concerned; but really aren't.

On the flip side it is your choice to keep the ads on that webspace; ultimately that is your choice and I dont think anyone could wag their finger at your for trying to make alittle extra dough... however I'm not inclined myself to give this site a thumbs-up knowing you are intending to keep the other site. (which isn't anything bad on you, but I'd like to see the space go to someone who isn't making the money and would use this as a primary site for what it's intended for.) Do keep in mind I'm not the deciding factor and you still could have a chance at hosting here; but Xepher does like to take other member's decisions in account when allowing or rejecting applicants.

You may also point out as you've done so that you have quite a fan base and later bring up the potential for income to Xepher's hosting... but I then think: "Well he has a site where people can already pay a fee and have access to everything; why would they donate here..?" Donating to keep a site free for access to comics where it's for free anyway cancels each other out.

I'm just not seeing a very rational reason why Xeph should allow you resources that you already possess somewhere else...
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: griever on August 01, 2006, 10:26:37 pm
I have to agree with Munerift - your current site isn't a gallery account or anything and it really is a fully functioning site.  I can't see a need for two either.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 03:59:19 pm
You may also point out as you've done so that you have quite a fan base and later bring up the potential for income to Xepher's hosting... but I then think: "Well he has a site where people can already pay a fee and have access to everything; why would they donate here..?" Donating to keep a site free for access to comics where it's for free anyway cancels each other out.

I'm just not seeing a very rational reason why Xeph should allow you resources that you already possess somewhere else...

You make a decenct point but but it is a very narrow view and not a very well thought out one.  In fact, it's similar to what a student of logic would call a 'straw man'.  The rational is obvious and would be that not every one is aware of my other site.  In fact, I would be willing to wager that most people who use (and donate to) Xepher.net have no idea my other site even exists (did you?)!  To further sweeten the pot for Xepher.net, I would also consider posting exclusive content here.  These two reasons alone (and there are more) will easily side step your concerns (hence the term 'straw man' - an easily defeated argument)!  So if this is your main objection to hosting, I would think you need to come up with someting more substantial.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 02, 2006, 04:21:11 pm
..yeah. Alittle too much salesman tambien. I had anticipated as I stated above your next reaction; but I shot too short in my predictions where you're trying to pitch another deal. Xepher (please correct me if I'm wrong Xeph) is trying to deviate away from commercialism.

I still dont feel like this would be a positive contribution to the community; you're still treating it like just another product of the consumer machine. Again, I stress that your choice to make money off what you like doing is not a bad thing; but it's not a thing I want to sneak into here.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: griever on August 02, 2006, 04:45:23 pm
Quote from: blooptoon
The rational is obvious and would be that not every one is aware of my other site.  In fact, I would be willing to wager that most people who use (and donate to) Xepher.net have no idea my other site even exists (did you?)!  To further sweeten the pot for Xepher.net, I would also consider posting exclusive content here.  These two reasons alone (and there are more) will easily side step your concerns (hence the term 'straw man' - an easily defeated argument)!  So if this is your main objection to hosting, I would think you need to come up with someting more substantial.
I'm willing to guess that with all the hundreds of other web comics out there, not everyone is aware of your site.  Have you considered that people may not be aware of your site because the content just doesn't interest them?  Or that others have read it and told their friends that it's not worth reading?  Making any number of sites with their own little exclusives and premiums isn't going to change that.

EDIT: Oops, Munerift covered it here while I wandered away to get something to eat...
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 05:46:37 pm
Trying to beat that losing argument like a dead horse, eh?  Your last comment was completely unfocused (I suspect due to being shaken up by my reply - this happens in Court at lot, too - your going to have to do better if you want convince a judge / jury)  We are talking about comics here, right?  The main focus for any application should be does the applicant have something neat and funny to offer the hosting site.  With regard to that, the masses have responded with a resounding - Yes!  You should focus your objections on that question.  Not on making side / irrelevant arguments like 'he's already established and making money eleswhere'  So what?  Should every applicant be a starving artist / pop up hater with no aspirations (or no hope because their suff sucks) of seeing his / her work generate income?  I'm not going to appoligize to the likes of you because people enjoy my strip, it's succesful and it generates income!  The bottom line here is if the applicant has something neat and funny to share with the community then give a thumbs up if not then give a thumbs down.  In other words, if you like BLOOP then say 'Yeah, BLOOP is kinda cool' and if you don't like BLOOP say 'Eh, not my cup of tea'.  Don't waste my time, the hosts time and your time with simple / illogical ramblings that are biased / envious at best and make no sense at worst.  Simple as that!  Fair enough?
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 02, 2006, 06:55:01 pm
Okay, I'm not too happy with any attacks being made on anybody and would like to keep things clean; but I do know at this point this person would not make a welcome addition to the community in my perspective.

Xeph, please chime in.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 07:00:04 pm
Attack?  I merely responded to your quasi-agrument in a logical and professional manner!  Don't  cry HELP just because you can't respond rationally!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 02, 2006, 07:11:53 pm
I can understand you wishing to defend yourself and your creation; and granted some of the correspondence on our end can come across as offensive. I however do not consider it appropriate for you to sit back and dismiss valid points brought up as beneath your notice and insulting us to boot. If you want something from us this is not the way to act and trying to come across as mature you should of already realized this. This thread is turning more and more dark with each post; so I wish not to add any further past this. I would also advise Griever to do likewise until Xepher has had a chance to look at things.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 07:21:21 pm
I however do not consider it appropriate for you to sit back and dismiss valid points brought up as beneath your notice and insulting us to boot.

You have not brought up any defensible / valid points nor have I insulted you (if you have taken offense then that is your own perspective not mine - as no insult was intended).  If you can't defend your position any further then there is no shame in merely saying so!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 07:36:20 pm
I can understand your appeal to the great and wonderful Xeph.  But I still say the main criterion for hosting should be does the applicant have something neat and funny to offer the community AS A WHOLE.  I would suspect the the wise and powerful Xeph may in fact determine that BLOOP does have something neat and funny to offer the community as a whole and on that basis BLOOP should be at least granted at trial run!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 02, 2006, 08:20:17 pm
FOLLOW UP:  I read some of the other posts by Munerift regarding other applications.  It seems Munerift is simply bitter overall and has nothing positive to to say regarding ANY application!  Boy, what a relief, I don't feel bad at all for have been critiqued by Munerift.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: tickyhead on August 02, 2006, 09:09:21 pm
Sorry mune, I probably shouldn't be aggravating him more, but I just have to put my two cents in here.

Mr. Bloop, (or Mr. Morton or whatever you want, I will be calling you Mr. Bloop regardless,) I have some words for you. These will be the only things I say to you, so that you can twist them and spit on me and consider me "envious" of you as little as possible.

First, I would say that I DO NOT envy you in the least, and I'm sure both Munerift and Griever feel the same. I'm quite happy as I am, doing what I do. I would not wish myself to be anything like you, any more than I would wish to be raped by rabid gorrillas and thrown off a cliff to a jagged, slow, painful death. Second, I want to make this perfectly clear: I don't like you. You piss me off with every word you type. I was fully intent on just letting your application get left to be forgotten, but after seeing your egotistic, self-centered and ignorant attitude, I just had to let out my frustration. I will not say that my words aren't biased, but all human thoughts, including yours, are biased.

Now on to the real rant. Just to warn you, I am going to make assumptions based on what I know and what you have said. These will probably also be "biased," so there's no need for you to mention it. :)
I noticed that you were a lawyer, which makes me think that you feel you can talk your way out of everything. This is not, however, a court of law, and you have no power here at all. You also think that logic will previal, which is really very stupid, if you think about it. This is a community of artists and likeminded individuals, not a business that gives out free hosting to whoever thinks they're hot stuff. Here you are NOT judged by what you can do or how funny your comic is alone, (in my opinion you lose points there anyway) you are judged also on your character and what you give to the community AS A PERSON. And frankly, you're not a nice person, you constantly talk down to the people who HELP TO DECIDE whether you stay or go. Ever heard of a "holier than thou" complex? You have also INSULTED Munerift more than once, then insisted you did no such thing. Yep, sounds like a typical lawyer to me. What the hell are you doing in the artsy business now?

Xepher made this site because he wanted to make a community of artists and likeminded people who could showcase their skills and hobbies without ads. In fact, the only way for anyone to make money on xepher.net is to beg for donations or sell merchandise. Even those simple google ads which make other artists on other sites more than a little extra money are not allowed. Why would anyone apply to a host who doesn't seem to want them making tons of money on their stuff? Because here it's NOT ABOUT MONEY. It's about people who love doing what they do, just for the sake of doing it. Not because they consider it a "cash cow." Not because they love money more than whatever it is they do, but the exact opposite. What makes you think that someone like you could ever hope to be a part of this community? What rogue thought got into your head that made you believe you could ever try to weasel your way into our digital homes?

Oh, in case you couldn't tell, those are rhetorical questions. I really, REALLY don't want to know what goes on in your head.

I will leave you with my thoughts, Mr. Bloop, and ask only that you do not twist my words as you did Mune and griever's, and as I'm sure you have twisted countless others'. I really don't expect you to comply with this request, but it was worth a shot.
Remember also that Xeph is human. Not a machine, not a businessman, and most certainly not a lawyer. He uses the forum as the means of applications because he expects us, the community, to help him with his decision. And you just got on the community's bad side.

I honestly hope that Xeph not only rejects you, but bans you from ever coming to darken our doorstep again.

(edit) oh, one more thing. You seem to think that your "fans" will help you here. For one, you are not judged by how big your fanbase is here. For another, I looked around on all of those topsites and stuff you're on. Looks like you have a total of....3 fans who like you. While this probably does not represent the whole, I just want to say: Some fanbase. :
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Xepher on August 02, 2006, 11:29:09 pm
Wow, I'm at work for one day...

First off: Everyone, CHILL!

Secondly: Whee, our first real flame war!

Okay, now on to business. Let me clear up a minor point first. Ticky: I do allow googleads here. So far, they're the only ads I allow, and revenue gets split the same was as donations, but still. The point isn't that one shouldn't make money from their talent and creativity, but I don't want the commercialism to ever overshadow the content. That's why most ads haven't been allowed.

Secondly, Munerift... You do come across as overzealous in some of your comments. Not just here, but on other applications as well. I am NOT asking you to stop commenting, just to think a bit more about how you phrase things. I don't think in any of those cases that you meant to be insulting, but I can see how people could rather easily misunderstand that intent. Remember, words on a screen don't carry the same contextual clues that real-life conversation does. People here are, as always, perfectly welcome to completely dislike someone's application/art/site/etc. and give their reasons for doing so. I just want to make sure people explain themselves clearly, because it doesn't take much to muddle up intent on a forum.

That said, Mune and Ticky are right, in that fanbase/popularity, or even the quality of the content itself is not the sole factor. A lot of the process here really is "getting to know each other" and as such, your interaction with these two (and others) as well as their opinions DO figure into my decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm still an all-out dictator and do whatever I want, but I try to keep things as agreeable as possible around here. To that end, it doesn't please me to see a flame-fest going on in this application. And while I appriciate them standing up for what they believe in here, it does take two (or more) to have an argument.

Time to be blunt. Bloop, I think Mune (though she phrased it kinda poorly) honestly didn't understand why you'd need a second site for the same content you already have on another site... one that's making a profit even. To retort with "it's similar to what a student of logic would call a 'straw man'" is quite patronizing, and as I've yet to see Mune back down from a fight, things just got worse. Then Ticky jumped in for backup and... here we are.

Mune, Ticky (and griever) I do appriciate ya'll jumping in so quick to defend your "digital home" (that phrase is actually quite touching) but let's give newcomers at least a couple weeks grace period to get the feel of things before we go tearing into 'em. Feel free to comment as usual on applications, but if something starts turning to personal attacks... that is, if you think you've been insulted, just ignore it for a bit and let things cool off. Ya'll know me, I'm not going to let a true jackass get away with anything for very long. Hopefully that'll keep things from escalating too much in situations like this.

Bloop, I'm not sure what your feelings are about all this... if you're still angry or still interested or what. As such, feel free to take a few days to cool off before you respond if you want. However, I am personally curious what makes you want to be hosted here, as opposed to just buying a $5/month account somewhere on your own and putting your stuff up there. Generally most people come here because they honestly can't afford even that, and/or because they're interested in the community. As Mune pointed out, you already have a site that makes income, so I too am wondering why you need a second site here, rather than just making a new section on your existing website or something.

Oh, and if anyone involved has something they feel they need to say, any/all are welcome to contact me by private email and I'll see what I can do to address your concerns.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: griever on August 03, 2006, 12:24:47 am
What's funny about all this, at least for me, is that I don't usually comment on applications because I have more going on IRL.  I usually comment only on anime themed sites, as they are closer to mine. o.O

In any case, I typed out an apology earlier, but then deleted it, because Mune had asked no one to respond before Xepher looked at things.  But I suppose it still should be said, because I didn't think a flame war would erupt from it (I don't share Xepher's joyous glee because I've seen forums wrecked from them).  In any case, I am sorry if anything I said sounded like a personal attack.  It was certainly not my intention.
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: tickyhead on August 03, 2006, 05:38:27 am
Griever's comments might not have been made with insult intended, but mine were. And I'm certainly not sorry for them. Sure, I could say I'm sorry, but it'd be a lie. If I don't like someone, I don't like them. Plain and simple.

I will however say sorry to Xeph and everyone for probably taking it overboard. :(
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: blooptoon on August 03, 2006, 02:35:03 pm
Xeph Wrote:
Bloop, I'm not sure what your feelings are about all this... if you're still angry or still interested or what. As such, feel free to take a few days to cool off before you respond if you want. However, I am personally curious what makes you want to be hosted here, as opposed to just buying a $5/month account somewhere on your own and putting your stuff up there. Generally most people come here because they honestly can't afford even that, and/or because they're interested in the community

I'm not at all angry as I didn't take personal offense to any thing that was said.  All lawyers endure on a daily basis a gazillion times worse.  As flame wars go this one was pretty mild.  I mostly just took issue with Munerifts awful arguments!  Not so much the tone of them but the overall form which they took.  But then after I saw that she was pretty much that way with all applicants it just didn't matter that much any more. Grievers responses / arguments on the other hand were well thought out, well written and on point.  But on to your question 'what makes you want to be hosted here?'  My current site is fully functional and I don't wanna tinker with it too much.  I mostly thought that I have something neat and funny to offer the Xepher.net community (I can't really do that very effectively somewhere else) and they have a place for me to do that.  What a nice fit!  How that simple proposition turned out so convoluted is beyond me!  I just assumed everyone would take a look at my work and say yeah it's cool or not my cup of tea - which would seem to be the normal way something like this should go.  Any way while I was not offended it appears Munerift and Griever were so in the spirit of community, I would like to appoligize to them for any offense.  In reading back through the posts I can honestly say no insult was intended.  Thanks for your time!
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: Munerift on August 03, 2006, 03:18:40 pm
I'm on the same page as Tickey as I do not feel bad for any of my actions. I still firmly do not like the manner in which this applicant has chosen to take action; and is still making small cracks to try and rile me while apologizing. Throughout this whole ordeal I've attempted a neutral standpoint because this is the first time meeting this person and as Xeph put it, it's his first time meeting the community.

Reading back now on my posts I am not seeing how I can be misunderstood. In any post I've put on here; I don't remember any of them attempting to insult someone. (I've tried my best to be friendly and hoped my happy wolf avatar would add that thought because I _rarely_ feel any doom-&-gloom.) I've been shocked certainly yes, or I've asked blunt questions (why beat around the bush for 10 posts?), but hoped people knew me enough to know I'm Aislynn; that fun-loving, morbidly funny person who draws animals and happens to be too curious for my own good. =o] I actually prefer "Aissy."

The objective of this application is to get feedback; and I've shared the point that I don't think Bloop would make a good choice for hosting. This isn't saying that Bloop is a bad person; but Bloop has hosting somewhere else to do with what he will and doesn't need hosting here. We all have bad days, being short and to the point; I don't like _how_ Bloop is acting, this isn't saying I don't like _Bloop_ as a person. (because I don't know who he is.) Bloop is welcome to feel however he wants about me.

I will still share my play-dough. =P
Title: Application by BLOOP
Post by: fesworks on August 06, 2006, 08:55:21 pm
for the record, i saw Bloop on an ad on a webcomic list site before I saw it posted here.